Heritage Eagle - improving its sound and appearance?

[Phil]

As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.

What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?

How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?

Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?

Thanks

[Five Sharp]

I'd put in a routed classic 57' Gibson humbucker in neck position. Wow, I'd
really like to hear an all mahogany archtop with a humbucker routed in the
top ...

#####

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[Kid Kool]

Post by Five Sharp
I'd put in a routed classic 57' Gibson humbucker in neck position. Wow, I'd
really like to hear an all mahogany archtop with a humbucker routed in the
top ...

And routing a pup into the top should help stabilise the top and focus
the tone. An ebony tailpiece and bridge would be interesting sonically.
When I had an Eagle I got the Burrell ebony pickguard which is way
nicer than the standard. You might consider a Benedetto pup; I've not
ABed one against a 57 Gibson, but they sure sound nice. Add some
death's head decals on the lower bout and Bob's yer uncle.

[o***@hotmail.com]

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?

Go to a store and try a Heritage H-550 or similar guitars to your Eagle
that already has routed in Pickups, to see if that's the sound you
want.
Bg

Post by Phil
Thanks

[Dave Stephens]

What year was your guitar made and which Heritage pickup do you have? Also,
how do you want the sound to change? "Better" is kind of vague.

If you've got a Heritage Type 1 floater, then either the Type 3 or the HRW
from Heritage will greatly improve the sound. (I don't understand why they
use that Type 1 at all. The cost differential can't be much). Making an
acoustic archtop with floating pickup sound beefy and "Burrell-ish" is a
tall order, and probably won't happen. You'll have to have pickups routed in
(if the bracing allows proper placement). You might consider switching to a
575 if you're going for that kind of sound. OTOH, if you like an "acoustic",
natural sound, then sticking with a floater is the way to go. Kent Armstrong
makes some great floaters that'll work on your Eagle.

You need to decide what you're seeking different in the sound before we can
really advise you about modifyng vs. replacing.

Dave

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[Phil]

I've got the Type 1 floater. It sounds tinny, weak, unbalanced, etc.
I'd like a smoother, fatter sound.

-Phil

Post by Dave Stephens
What year was your guitar made and which Heritage pickup do you have? Also,
how do you want the sound to change? "Better" is kind of vague.
If you've got a Heritage Type 1 floater, then either the Type 3 or the HRW
from Heritage will greatly improve the sound. (I don't understand why they
use that Type 1 at all. The cost differential can't be much). Making an
acoustic archtop with floating pickup sound beefy and "Burrell-ish" is a
tall order, and probably won't happen. You'll have to have pickups routed in
(if the bracing allows proper placement). You might consider switching to a
575 if you're going for that kind of sound. OTOH, if you like an "acoustic",
natural sound, then sticking with a floater is the way to go. Kent Armstrong
makes some great floaters that'll work on your Eagle.
You need to decide what you're seeking different in the sound before we can
really advise you about modifyng vs. replacing.
Dave

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[markr]

Post by Phil
I've got the Type 1 floater. It sounds tinny, weak, unbalanced, etc.
I'd like a smoother, fatter sound.

There are better options now for pickups. Try the Kent Armstrong or the
Heritage type 3. Maybe Heritage could install an HRW for you but that
would entail cuttiing or at least drilling into the top.

[Dave Stephens]

The Type 3 will be an easy fix for that and not expensive at all.

Try that before doing any other modifications. If you don't like that, then
it's because your not a floating pickup kind of guy and you should switch to
a guitar designed for routed PUs, like a 575 with a solid spruce top, from
Jay Wolfe.

Oh, do you have a tone control? Many Eagles do not. If not, then having one
installed will allow you to adjust to your taste. I keep my Type 3 mostly
wide open, but a little roll-off sometimes beefs up the tone for a
particular situation.

Dave

Post by Phil
I've got the Type 1 floater. It sounds tinny, weak, unbalanced, etc.
I'd like a smoother, fatter sound.
-Phil

[Norm K]

Post by Dave Stephens
Try that before doing any other modifications. If you don't like that, then
it's because your not a floating pickup kind of guy and you should switch to
a guitar designed for routed PUs, like a 575 with a solid spruce top, from
Jay Wolfe.

Just be aware of scale length if you go this route. Eagles have 25.5"
scales and 575s have 24.75" scales (like 175s). I tried spruce top
575s and found them to be fine instruments but I wanted the longer
scale and opted for the Sweet 16.

Post by Dave Stephens
Oh, do you have a tone control?

I second this. A tone control -- on the body not the pickguard -- was
one of the mods I got on my Heritage. I rarely touch the tone knob on
my tele if I'm playing rock, but I find the tone control very useful
for jazz, especially when I switch between plectrum and fingerstyle.

Good luck with your decision(s)!

Norm

[Marc]

If you're looking for a replacement pickup, try Tom Short in
California. He makes great stuff (jazz floater, bucker, etc.), and is
a great guy to work with.

http://www.tomshortshandmadepickups.com

I also like the ideas above about just getting a different axe
altogether!

Marc

[Paul K]

Post by Norm K
I second this. A tone control -- on the body not the pickguard -- was
one of the mods I got on my Heritage.

I got a tone control put under the pickguard with one of those small
flywheel pots: this way the pickguard was not cut.

PK

[Dallas Selman]

Try a Bartolini 5J floater

Post by Dave Stephens
The Type 3 will be an easy fix for that and not expensive at all.
Try that before doing any other modifications. If you don't like that,
then it's because your not a floating pickup kind of guy and you should
switch to a guitar designed for routed PUs, like a 575 with a solid spruce
top, from Jay Wolfe.
Oh, do you have a tone control? Many Eagles do not. If not, then having
one installed will allow you to adjust to your taste. I keep my Type 3
mostly wide open, but a little roll-off sometimes beefs up the tone for a
particular situation.
Dave

Post by Phil
I've got the Type 1 floater. It sounds tinny, weak, unbalanced, etc.
I'd like a smoother, fatter sound.
-Phil

[Norm K]

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument.
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?

I ordered a Heritage Sweet 16 several years ago from Jay Wolfe and got
several customized features. While I have no problem with the much
maligned headstock, I am not a fan of the pointy stock pickguards. Jay
suggested a more traditionally shaped pickguard in ebony instead of
light maple. It looks great IMHO. While I have a standard tailpiece,
I know that Heritage also makes finger-style tailpieces that may fit
your Eagle.

As for sound, my guitar has a routed in HRW humbucker with "four point
mounting" and I think the sound is wonderful. This guitar totally
eliminated all my archtop GAS pains. You might contact Jay to see how
expensive it would be to have your Eagle retrofitted with this pickup.
You won't find a more helpful person than Jay to deal with.
http://www.wolfeguitars.com/

Norm

[Kid Kool]

Post by Norm K
As for sound, my guitar has a routed in HRW humbucker with "four point
mounting" and I think the sound is wonderful. This guitar totally
eliminated all my archtop GAS pains. You might contact Jay to see how
expensive it would be to have your Eagle retrofitted with this pickup.
You won't find a more helpful person than Jay to deal with.

I just thought of suggesting that. If anyone would know Jay would.

Post by Norm K
http://www.wolfeguitars.com/
Norm

[Greg Clayton]

I hate to be a nay-sayer but my advise would be to flog the guitar and buy
one that fits your needs. The guitar is what it is, and that said, is
perfect for some player.. just not you. Doing mods will only devalue it
and change it from what it was. I have tried this and other experiments
over the years and the results have never gotten me to where I wanted to be.
Now my credo is
if the guitar is problematic for me it goes then I have that much
more knowledge/experience to continue my search with. I haven't
wrecked a perfectly good guitar
and wasted money except what I lost on the original price.
IMO one still is ahead of the game.
When you spend money altering a guitar , if ,it doesn't work out you
will NEVER recoup the investment on the mods and will get less than you
would have gotten for the axe's resale before the mods.
Greg
--
www.gregclayton.com
The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[Mark Guest]

My vote is with Greg on this. If the Heritage's sound and appearance
aren't working for you it would be cheaper and maybe closer to a
permanent "fit" if you find another guitar. I used to fiddle with and
trade guitars a lot until I bought an L5 Wes. It's been my main guitar
since I got it 5 years ago. The Wes is a pretty good value when
compared to other L5's. And I suspect that it will hold
value/appreciate better than many guitars out there.

Nope, I'm not selling!

Best,

Mark Guest

Post by Greg Clayton
I hate to be a nay-sayer but my advise would be to flog the guitar and buy
one that fits your needs. The guitar is what it is, and that said, is
perfect for some player.. just not you. Doing mods will only devalue it
and change it from what it was. I have tried this and other experiments
over the years and the results have never gotten me to where I wanted to be.
Now my credo is
if the guitar is problematic for me it goes then I have that much
more knowledge/experience to continue my search with. I haven't
wrecked a perfectly good guitar
and wasted money except what I lost on the original price.
IMO one still is ahead of the game.
When you spend money altering a guitar , if ,it doesn't work out you
will NEVER recoup the investment on the mods and will get less than you
would have gotten for the axe's resale before the mods.
Greg
--
www.gregclayton.com
The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[Rick Ross]

Post by Mark Guest
My vote is with Greg on this. If the Heritage's sound and appearance
aren't working for you it would be cheaper and maybe closer to a
permanent "fit" if you find another guitar. I used to fiddle with and
trade guitars a lot until I bought an L5 Wes. It's been my main guitar
since I got it 5 years ago. The Wes is a pretty good value when
compared to other L5's. And I suspect that it will hold
value/appreciate better than many guitars out there.
Nope, I'm not selling!
Best,
Mark Guest

Post by Greg Clayton
I hate to be a nay-sayer but my advise would be to flog the guitar and buy
one that fits your needs. The guitar is what it is, and that said, is
perfect for some player.. just not you. Doing mods will only devalue it
and change it from what it was. I have tried this and other experiments
over the years and the results have never gotten me to where I wanted to be.
Now my credo is
if the guitar is problematic for me it goes then I have that much
more knowledge/experience to continue my search with. I haven't
wrecked a perfectly good guitar
and wasted money except what I lost on the original price.
IMO one still is ahead of the game.
When you spend money altering a guitar , if ,it doesn't work out you
will NEVER recoup the investment on the mods and will get less than you
would have gotten for the axe's resale before the mods.
Greg
--
www.gregclayton.com
The official website of Jazz Guitarist Greg Clayton

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

agreed as well...guitar surgery, albeit sometimes successful, very often
leads to irreversible problems...liquidate and just get something u want

[Jon Fox]

Post by Mark Guest
My vote is with Greg on this. If the Heritage's sound and appearance
aren't working for you it would be cheaper and maybe closer to a
permanent "fit" if you find another guitar. I used to fiddle with and
trade guitars a lot until I bought an L5 Wes. It's been my main guitar
since I got it 5 years ago. The Wes is a pretty good value when
compared to other L5's. And I suspect that it will hold
value/appreciate better than many guitars out there.
Nope, I'm not selling!
Best,
Mark Guest

Post by Greg Clayton
I hate to be a nay-sayer but my advise would be to flog the guitar and buy
one that fits your needs. The guitar is what it is, and that said, is
perfect for some player.. just not you. Doing mods will only devalue it
and change it from what it was. I have tried this and other experiments
over the years and the results have never gotten me to where I wanted to be.
Now my credo is
if the guitar is problematic for me it goes then I have that much
more knowledge/experience to continue my search with. I haven't
wrecked a perfectly good guitar
and wasted money except what I lost on the original price.
IMO one still is ahead of the game.
When you spend money altering a guitar , if ,it doesn't work out you
will NEVER recoup the investment on the mods and will get less than you
would have gotten for the axe's resale before the mods.
Greg

On the other hand, when I found that I wasn't completely happy with the
appearance of my D'Angelico NYL-2, I had originally felt that I didn't want
to start changing things on it. I started looking around for possible
replacements for it and found that nothing was coming close to the
playability and feel of the D'A. So instead I had an ebony tailpiece and
pickguard made (replacing gold and plastic tortoise-shell, respectively),
swapped out the gold tuner buttons for ebony, and flipped the faux MOP nut
cover over to the black side. You can see the evolution here:

http://www.jonfoxjazz.com/dangelicobeforeafter.html

I couldn't be happier with the way everything turned out (eventually, that
is...for the story of the tailpiece(s), look here:

http://www.jonfoxjazz.com/explosion.html

Now granted, I haven't had to drill a single new hole, and everything is
100% reversible (and with minimal effort, really), should I ever decide to
sell the guitar. The sound was never an issue, so that might be something
else to consider for the original poster.

Just another point of view...

Jon

--

www.jonfoxjazz.com

[Jon Fox]

Post by Jon Fox
On the other hand, when I found that I wasn't completely happy with the
appearance of my D'Angelico NYL-2, I had originally felt that I didn't
want to start changing things on it. I started looking around for
possible replacements for it and found that nothing was coming close to
the playability and feel of the D'A. So instead I had an ebony tailpiece
and pickguard made (replacing gold and plastic tortoise-shell,
respectively), swapped out the gold tuner buttons for ebony, and flipped
the faux MOP nut cover over to the black side. You can see the evolution

Sorry, that should of course read truss rod cover, not nut cover.....

Jon

[Mark Cleary]

I would simply try the pick up swap out that Dave Stephens suggested he has
great ears for these things. As far as the appearence do not put a wood
tailpiece on the guitar that will not help and I think it would hurt the
sound, at least acoustically. Personally you might be better to sell the
guitar and get what you want. It is still a good guitar and has some value.
If you ever thought of a true carvetop please e mail offline. I have
something that might interest you.
--
Mark Cleary
Hollenbeck Jazz Guitars the Finest
Handcarved Jazz Guitars
http://members.cox.net/ruthster/hollenbeck/

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single floating
pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It plays well
and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric sound isn't
quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit er..... appearance
challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting a
"routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade the
tailpiece and bridge?
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden one?
Ebony tailpiece?
Just looking to explore ideas. Has anyone done any upgrades to their
Eagle?
Thanks

[Tim McNamara]

Post by Phil
As an option to selling my Heritage Eagle and buying something else,
I'd also like to explore upgrading the instrument. I have the
standard, brown sunburst, wood pickguard, all mahogany, single
floating pickup model, no binding on f-holes, neck or headstock. It
plays well and is comfy, sounds nice acoustically -- but the electric
sound isn't quite to my liking and I've always felt it was a bit
er..... appearance challenged.
What can be done to improve the sound? Replacement pickup? Getting
a "routed-in" humbucker installed instead of the floater? Upgrade
the tailpiece and bridge?

Don't cut into the top. If you want that sound, buy a guitar designed
for it. Personally, if the floating pickup was good enough for Johnny
Smith...

Try a different pickup. I'd try a Kent Armstrong pickup. The folks at
archtop.com claim that their KA pickups are would by Kent himself and
not made in Korea to Kent's specs. I have no idea if this is true,
whether the folks at archtop.com are honest or what, I've never dealt
with them.

http://www.archtop.com/ac_access.html

There are also the Seymour Duncan-made Benedetto pickups (I've got
Seymours in my FrankenStrat, a Quarter Pounder in the neck position and
humbuckers in the other positions; I really like 'em):

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Pickups:_Guitar,_archtop
/Benedetto_Pickups.ssc

Post by Phil
How about the esthetics? New pickguard instead of the ugly wooden
one? Ebony tailpiece?

How about installing a Benedetto "Chuck Wayne" style ebony pickguard and
ebony tailpiece?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Hardware,_parts/Archtop_guitar:_Pickguards/Be
nedetto_Archtop_Guitar_Fingerrest.html

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Archtop_guitar_tailpieces
/Benedetto_Archtop_Tailpiece.html

[Paul K]

Post by Tim McNamara
Try a different pickup. I'd try a Kent Armstrong pickup. The folks at
archtop.com claim that their KA pickups are would by Kent himself and
not made in Korea to Kent's specs. I have no idea if this is true,
whether the folks at archtop.com are honest or what, I've never dealt
with them.
http://www.archtop.com/ac_access.html

FWIW, the Heritage pickups are not the same size as the typical KA
pickups. THis means they may not be thin enough to fit in the space the
Heritage uses, and also that they wont match the cutaway in the
pickguard. The bottom line is that replacing a Heritage PU with a KA is
likely to be something you can't do yourself without it ending up
looking like crap. I have an unused KA pickup from when I had the same
plans, and gave up.

I replaced the #1 with the #3 on my Heritage JS. You can listen to how
it sounds on my soundclick site

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=240975

"solar night" and "B.Love" are probably the clearest recordings

I wouldn't call it a completely standard Jazz guitar tone, but since I
started using the RE/Clarus I'm fairly happy with it.

paul K.