Sticky thumb disorder?

[oasysco]

Guitar-playing related...

I have been suffering from a very weird ailment the last 3 weeks
whereby it is very painful to bend my left thumb at the upper joint and
when I do, it feels like my thumb dislocates.

It all started a few weeks back when I'd reach for something, I'd get a
severe, stabbing pain on the side of the knuckle of my thumb.

From there, it progressed to the painful bending and feeling of

dislocaiton.

I've been wearing little finger-sized Ace bandages for support, but all
they do is hlep keep my thumb straight which hurts even more when I try
to bend it later.The meat where my thumb and palm connect has been very
tender and painful as well.

Playing guitar and using my left thumb on the backof the neck has not
beeen easy so I've laid off quite a bit.

I went to the DR yesterday and he said I have "sticky thumb" - and I
can't remebmer if he used the word "sticky" or something else.

It's a build-up of scar tissue on the tendons of the joint such that
the upper joint catches bending forward and back.

It appears this can be caused by a number fo things, but most suspect
for me is guitar playing and weight lifting, especially bench presses
where the bar reasts on my palm and my thumb help keeps it level.

I'm on anti-inflammatories. So far, my thumb still catches, but it's
90% less painful. If the drugs don't do it, I've got to get a hot. the
next step after that is surgery. Thankfully, the drug seems to be
working pretty well, but I can't stay on it forever.

Anybody else havce anything like this? If so, how did yours turn out?

Thanks,
greg

[o***@hotmail.com]

I hate to be pessimistic, but you've been practicing a lot of Solo
Guitar lately, NO?
I think that's it, probably not relaxed and putting pressure on the
back of the Guitar neck instead of being relaxed.

I can't do solo guitar anymore because of thumb pain but it doesn't
bother me for single note stuff, or normal comping where I don't have
to hold down a chord for too long.
I don't do gigs without Bass playerrs, so that I don't have to play
chords non stop.
Bg

[kjs]

Post by o***@hotmail.com
I hate to be pessimistic, but you've been practicing a lot of Solo
Guitar lately, NO?
I think that's it, probably not relaxed and putting pressure on the
back of the Guitar neck instead of being relaxed.
I can't do solo guitar anymore because of thumb pain but it doesn't
bother me for single note stuff, or normal comping where I don't have
to hold down a chord for too long.
I don't do gigs without Bass playerrs, so that I don't have to play
chords non stop.

I agree, I wrecked my hand several years ago after coming back from a
long layoff and over doing solo guitar and applying sloppy technique.
It wasn't the thumb but the tendons on the back of the hand and I would
also get a shooting pain through the palm of my hand if I applied
presure to my Pinky finger. It took about two years of almost no
playing for my hand strength to come back. I never went to a doctor so
I don't have an official explanation. Now, as soon as I feel like I am
over doing it I take a break. I have also found a way to massage the
palm of my left hand. I probe the entire palm with the tip of my right
thumb and apply presure in a circular motion to any spot that feels
tender. I work my way all the way to the outside edge of the palm to
the fleshy area below the pinky. I also have a few other stretching
type exercises I do. This and going back to wearing a strap has been a
break through for me in terms of playing pain free. The foot stool was
killing me and I didn't know it. I also usually play a lot on the
weekend, so I usually take Monday off.

Good luck Greg. This is a terrible thing, but hopefully it will pass
and you will find a way that works for you to manage it.

Ken

[oasysco]

I hate to be pessimistic, but you've been practicing a lot of Solo Guitar lately, NO?

Yes, that is correct. You are probably right that is the dominant
cause. I pride myself for how hard I don't press my thumb, *but* (and
this is the kicker) I use heavier strings - 12's and 13's on all my
guitars, whihc require more pressure of my thumb on the neck and that's
fairly recent for me.

Thanks,
Greg

[Gerry]

Post by oasysco

I hate to be pessimistic, but you've been practicing a lot of Solo Guitar lately, NO?

Yes, that is correct. You are probably right that is the dominant
cause. I pride myself for how hard I don't press my thumb, *but* (and
this is the kicker) I use heavier strings - 12's and 13's on all my
guitars, whihc require more pressure of my thumb on the neck and that's
fairly recent for me.

12's and 13's are far different that 10's and 11's certainly. But they
don't demand 50% more pressure. But the do demand a certain adjustment
that can be hard to nail without overcompensation. That would only be
natural.

Maybe an all-purpose recommendation, but that the hell: Greg, get with
any *experienced* local teacher, or better: a couple of them. Take only
a lesson or two if you like. Have them analyze your technique. They may
not be what you really need or want relative to being their "student",
but it may well be worth thrice the price to have them expose a few
clues. At the end of the season, It could have take ten years off your
ligaments.

[oasysco]

Maybe an all-purpose recommendation, but that the hell: Greg, get with any *experienced* local teacher, or better: a couple of them.

Thanks for the adivce, Gerry, but I did this a few years ago. The guy
is a lcoal legend and he spent the first few minutes of my first elsson
going over my technique... the way i fret, the use of my thumb, whether
or not I lifted my fingers form chord to chord for fingers that didn't
need to be lifted, etc. He had no suggestions to make as to me doing
something wrong. Plus I gigged for a few years - 4 hr stints, got to be
nearly every Fri/sat night.

I think the probolem is multi-fold for me, starting with weight lifting
and becnh presses. i have a cyst on ym wrist - have had for years. I
wear Ace banadges wrapped around my hands and wrists, yet the brunt of
the bar bears down on exactly the place on the meat of my thumb that
was really hurting, I don't think trying to lanuch into solo guitar
with 13's on an Es-175 that has higher action that, say, a strat
helped.

That and thr cyst can't be beneficial with this considering it is
located right beloe my thimb on my wrist. The doc says as logn as it's
not growing, there's no reason to do surgery.

Greg

[Gerry]

Post by oasysco

Post by Gerry
Maybe an all-purpose recommendation, but that the hell: Greg, get with
any *experienced* local teacher, or better: a couple of them.

Thanks for the adivce, Gerry, but I did this a few years ago. The guy
is a lcoal legend and he spent the first few minutes of my first elsson
going over my technique... the way i fret, the use of my thumb, whether
or not I lifted my fingers form chord to chord for fingers that didn't
need to be lifted, etc. He had no suggestions to make as to me doing
something wrong.

Cool. Check him off. If you consider him the final word, you're done.
If you don't, check out some other teachers, legends or otherwise.

As I reviewed the thread I guess the first thing I should have said is
"lay off playing for a week or two!". I forgot.

Post by oasysco
Plus I gigged for a few years - 4 hr stints, got to be nearly every
Fri/sat night.

My whole point was that even great guitarists can develop some bad
habits and not see them. Then, even a student can say, hey, that mole
or your neck looks funny. Know what I mean? Anyway, it's just a
thought.

Post by oasysco
I think the probolem is multi-fold for me, starting with weight lifting
and becnh presses. i have a cyst on ym wrist - have had for years. I
wear Ace banadges wrapped around my hands and wrists, yet the brunt of
the bar bears down on exactly the place on the meat of my thumb that
was really hurting, I don't think trying to lanuch into solo guitar
with 13's on an Es-175 that has higher action that, say, a strat
helped.

Yikes. I had a ganglion cyst on my left wrist that hung me up for
about year. Had me leaving the professional end of music behind
actually. Had a few treatments of various kinds. In the end I think
not gigging for six months (while picking up a straight gig) and
putting away the classical (on which I had VASTLY horrible technique),
were the main solutions.

Post by oasysco
That and thr cyst can't be beneficial with this considering it is
located right beloe my thimb on my wrist.

Exactly where mine was located. I feel that it popped up due to 5
hours a day playing on a classical (my first experience with it) and I
*know* that I was using the death-grip thumb approach to override what
I thought was insufficient pressure on the strings. Then I had a four
hour slog of carrying a garment bag full of LP's, I have no idea what
kind of weight. Did this on two days in a row.

BTW, never had anything like "sticky thumb" or anything. Just a mild
headache in my wrist and a stiffness. Sometimes, maybe once an hour, a
very fast stabbing pain in the wrist.

Post by oasysco
The doc says as logn as it's not growing, there's no reason to do surgery.

My doctor said it could be removed, and he'd enjoy doing it because it
was "tricky". Sheesh. Also that it it was due to stress and overwork,
there was no reason to think another might not pick up where the old
one left off. In any case his suggestion, alternative to surgery, was
to stop playing guitar for 3 months. I told him I couldn't eat if I
didn't play. He suggested a different job. Unfortunately I got a good
one.

Mine was about half the diameter of a dime or about 1.5 the size of a
pencal eraser.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

[o***@hotmail.com]

"You are probably right that is the dominant
cause. I pride myself for how hard I don't press my thumb, *but* (and
this is the kicker) I use heavier strings - 12's and 13's on all my
guitars, whihc require more pressure of my thumb on the neck and that's

fairly recent for me. "

U usae 12's or 13's as well, and lately I've been moving my thumb up
higher and not in the middle of the neck as before, and it's helping me
to float the thumb, and to remind myself to NOT use pressure, it's not
really required, just a bad habit.
Somebody possibly Robert Fripp, that if the guitar is in the Right
position ergonomically, the the Weight of your thru gravity shoul be
enough to fret the string, use the weight instead of pressure.
I can't say I've succeeded in this, but I AM learing to let the
left-hand thumb Float and just barely touch the neck, but that's hard
on Solo stuff, Sigh.
Bg

[zip]

I had problems a year and a half ago after doing too many gigs during
xmas rush gigapalooza.. and switching instruments, gtr/bass, different
muscles.. too much condensed gigging and equip. lugging..
My thumb was kind of 'locking' and clicking.. some pain came with it a
few days later... drove me up the wall and scared the crap out of me..
After researching the web and library, and asking a physical therapist
relative, I came up with my own amateur diagnoses of "trigger thumb"
(research "trigger finger" - same condition).
Another friend gave me two pieces of exc. advice: 1. don't panic 2.
be careful when sleeping, not to let it catch or click.. I had an old
finger splint I used all night, and part of the day.

Problem went away after a couple/three weeks of little playing, and
never returned.
Hope you get identical results!

Anti-inflams sound wise... don't consider surgery until you've
exhausted all other things, like accupuncture, massage, shots, anything
else... hopefully rest and non-use will cure you.

[oasysco]

That's it! Trigger finger, only on the thumb. I couldn't remember which
adjective he used.

Post by zip
I had problems a year and a half ago after doing too many gigs during
xmas rush gigapalooza.. and switching instruments, gtr/bass, different
muscles.. too much condensed gigging and equip. lugging..
My thumb was kind of 'locking' and clicking.. some pain came with it a
few days later... drove me up the wall and scared the crap out of me..
After researching the web and library, and asking a physical therapist
relative, I came up with my own amateur diagnoses of "trigger thumb"
(research "trigger finger" - same condition).
Another friend gave me two pieces of exc. advice: 1. don't panic 2.
be careful when sleeping, not to let it catch or click.. I had an old
finger splint I used all night, and part of the day.

I use a acde-like finger bandage at night, but when I awake my thumb is
stiff.

Post by zip
Problem went away after a couple/three weeks of little playing, and
never returned.
Hope you get identical results!
Anti-inflams sound wise... don't consider surgery until you've
exhausted all other things, like accupuncture, massage, shots, anything
else... hopefully rest and non-use will cure you.

Thanks,
Greg

[oasysco]

Zip,

When you had your problem, did you notice that the joint moved freely,
say, after a hot shower or at times during the day dpending on whether
or not you get your arm straight? There are times when the joint
doesn't click/pop at all. Seems to imply that there are things you can
do to alleviate it.

Here's an article for everybody else:
http://www.emedicine.com/orthoped/topic571.htm

Greg

[zip]

Post by oasysco
When you had your problem, did you notice that the joint moved freely,

say, after a hot shower or at times during the day dpending on whether
or not you get your arm straight? There are times when the joint
doesn't click/pop at all. Seems to imply that there are things you can
do to alleviate it. >>

Yes, I recall that after a hot shower things were better, but I came to
no conclusions about specific things that alleviated it.
Resist the temptation to test it! .. this was my problem ... See if
some time heal you.

One analogy for trigger thumb: a rope that just fits thru a tube and
slides nicely.. suddenly there comes a bulge -a frayed section of rope
slightly too big to pull thru.. you can force it a little and it slides
thru ... ouch.
the "bulge" is NOT necessarily permanent scar tissue... could very well
just be inflammation which some time will heal.

Of course: my totally nonprofessional self-diagnoses about me only ...
I'm hopeful that your case is similar to mine, with great results soon!

[Pt]

I'm a firm believer of mind over matter.
Be a little more gentle with it and give it some time and it will
probably get better.
I have had the same problem and it did go away.
That was many years ago and it never came back.

Pt

[Pt]

Every bone in my left hand was broken.
Left thumb numb and disfigured.
Right arm injury secrewd up the tendons and muscles.
My fingers are no longer spaced normal.
I was a teenager when broke my hand but I was taking weekly guitar
lessons.
Missed some lessons on that one but I spent my practice time working
on keyboard.
More recently I almost lost my arm but I kept gigging.
Probably the best thing I could have done for it.
Everything healed and some joints don't work good, fingers are in the
wrong places etc.
If my style of playing something hurts I find another way of playig it
that doesn't hurt.

Pt

[oasysco]

Post by Pt
More recently I almost lost my arm but I kept gigging.

That souds crazy out of context, Pat :)-

Greg

[googledawg]

whew - PT - my toes are curled up just reading this !

[Pt]

Post by googledawg
whew - PT - my toes are curled up just reading this !

I know it sounds rough but it really is not.
Playing a guitar has been a big part of my life since I was 13.
I'm not going to let anything stop me if I have the choice.
I see guys playing basketball in wheel chairs.
Guys with no arms typing with their toes.
Guys with fingers missing playing guitars.
Sometimes life throws you a couple curve balls.
That's no reason to stop living.

Pt

[Chickenhead]

Yeah, that's how I muddle through it all. I've had a few various hand and
wrist issues over the years, though nothing as severe as what you went
through. Ultimately, for me, what you just said says it all: If it hurts,
do something else.

There is a slight exception to that in that I expect a little bit of pain on
the fingertips when developing callouses. Or if I'm working on stretches or
something like that, a tiny bit of soreness from building muscles or
stretching is okay, but only to the edge where it hurts.

Something about our instrument, and stringed instruments in general, is that
the player needs to develop a real consciousness of the difference between
bad pain and a good slight soreness. When we started out as beginners we
all had to muddle through a period of pain while developing callouses and
muscles, so we have to be careful not to think of all pain when playing as
good or okay and then subsequently damage ourselves. It's very weird how we
have to develop a combination of focused pressure and relaxation.

One thing I've found too that helps is to pay attention to how my hands and
body are when I'm relaxed and playing something kinesthetically easy, and
then try to find that same relaxation and ease when playing something more
kinesthetically difficult.

After you take a break, Greg, you might try not only some instruments with
different shaped necks and different playing positions, but also dropping a
few string gauges and dropping the action as low as you can stand -- and
then try to lighten the right hand to compensate for the lower action and
string gauges. And if it hurts, try and find a way to do the same thing or
something similar that doesn't hurt.

Also, I've found being unsure of the notes or time can cause my nerves and
muscles to fight each other when different signals start firing at the same
time: One reason I hate playing with an unsteady rhythm section is that I
find my hands tensing up trying to ride them, rather than being able to just
relax. It's a result of different signals simultaneously running.

It's as if my brain says to my hands: "turn left and then right, relax a
little, stretch the pinky up in 150 milliseconds and drop down to the index
finger" and while my hands are processing that "request" the rhythm section
sped up a little or slowed down and now I have to send another signal that
says "oops, drop the 'relax a little,' stretch the pinky up in 100
milliseconds, and oops wait before you drop the index finger" or even a
whole new set of instructions. So now I've got the muscles in my hands,
neck, shoulder and breathing, all twitching away trying to process multiple
conflicting instructions. Trying to keep relaxed and accurate in that
situation is very difficult.

Post by Pt
If my style of playing something hurts I find another way of playig it
that doesn't hurt.
Pt

[RickH]

Post by oasysco
Guitar-playing related...
I have been suffering from a very weird ailment the last 3 weeks
whereby it is very painful to bend my left thumb at the upper joint and
when I do, it feels like my thumb dislocates.
It all started a few weeks back when I'd reach for something, I'd get a
severe, stabbing pain on the side of the knuckle of my thumb.

From there, it progressed to the painful bending and feeling of

dislocaiton.
I've been wearing little finger-sized Ace bandages for support, but all
they do is hlep keep my thumb straight which hurts even more when I try
to bend it later.The meat where my thumb and palm connect has been very
tender and painful as well.
Playing guitar and using my left thumb on the backof the neck has not
beeen easy so I've laid off quite a bit.
I went to the DR yesterday and he said I have "sticky thumb" - and I
can't remebmer if he used the word "sticky" or something else.
It's a build-up of scar tissue on the tendons of the joint such that
the upper joint catches bending forward and back.
It appears this can be caused by a number fo things, but most suspect
for me is guitar playing and weight lifting, especially bench presses
where the bar reasts on my palm and my thumb help keeps it level.
I'm on anti-inflammatories. So far, my thumb still catches, but it's
90% less painful. If the drugs don't do it, I've got to get a hot. the
next step after that is surgery. Thankfully, the drug seems to be
working pretty well, but I can't stay on it forever.
Anybody else havce anything like this? If so, how did yours turn out?
Thanks,
greg

I do a lot of thumb playing for bass lines and my left thumb knuckle
does not "close up" all the way due to an old 16 inch softball injury.
(In Chicago we play 16 inch clincher softwall with no gloves). Some
days there is pain other days no pain. In my case inactivity leads to
more pain, so if I do a lot of gardening, woodworking, etc (things that
give my hands a workout) I'm in better shape. My doctor X rayed mine
and said that the joint had been broken at some time in the past, it's
common for people to break thumbs and big toes and not even know it,
and never treat it. Then years later they lose range of motion and
wonder why, In my case I know it was getting hammered by a line drive
playing third base. You are probably right about an injury.

[Marco]

Greg,

I hope you can solve the problem soon and in easy way. Also, I play only
solo guitar. I have also a light pain diffused all around the left hand:
fingers and palm. If I stop to play one day the pain seems to increase. It
is same pain everybody have in the legs the day after some jogging which is
more related with lactic acid accumulation. An other characteristic of my
left pain is that the overall hand skin seems to loose sensitivity, as
anesthetized.

Marco

[Alex]

An other characteristic of my

Post by Marco
left pain is that the overall hand skin seems to loose sensitivity, as
anesthetized.
Marco

You might want to get that checked out, as your nerves may be involved,
if you have loss of sensitivity. Like a pinched nerve or something.

[Marco]

Post by Alex
You might want to get that checked out, as your nerves may be involved,
if you have loss of sensitivity. Like a pinched nerve or something.

Yes it could be. Thanks.

[Greg M. Silverman]

Post by oasysco
Guitar-playing related...
Anybody else havce anything like this? If so, how did yours turn out?

Your MD needs a course in remedial medicalterminology! ;-) It's not
called "sticky thumb." it's called trigger finger (aka, tenosynovitis).
See it under http://eeshop.unl.edu/music.html

Yes, I had it. It was caused by too much pressure against the back of
the neck (and can all affect any of the digits of the hand, and is very
common among string players). Thankfully mine spontaneously healed
without having to resort to cortisone or surgery (although, I had to lay
of playing guitar for 6 months and had to get physical therapy for the
thumb, wear a splint, take lots of NSAIDs, etc.).

Good luck!

[thom_j.]

Your MD needs a course in remedial medicalterminology! ;-) It's not called
"sticky thumb." it's called trigger finger (aka, tenosynovitis).

Are you sure it ain't called "stinky" finger? curious tee'..