Discussion:
What 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 is?
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m***@gmail.com
2017-12-08 19:35:22 UTC
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Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and chord create tension)
It sounds awkward but I think that's the point too
Nil
2017-12-08 20:30:31 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me
that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and
chord create tension) It sounds awkward but I think that's the
point too
That scale is the 5th mode of the Harmonic Minor, so you can use it
wherever you want to imply the sound of a dominant chord leading to
that sort of minor. You'll often seen that used in a (major key) V7/iii
or V7/iv situation. A V7#9 chord is slightly out-of-key in that
context, but should sound good. Another choice could be an "Altered"
scale (the 7th mode of the Harmonic minor), which includes both the b9
and #9, as well as the third (be aware that the chord's natural 5 and
the scale's b5 could clash.)

However, if you're in an extended vamp on a V7#9 chord that's not
resolving somewhere, I think your scale can sound kind of awkward. In
that situaton I usually a blues thing going on. Other scales will make
it sound more "out" or more awkward, which might be just what you want.
Anon Anon
2017-12-08 21:19:29 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and chord create tension)
It sounds awkward but I think that's the point too
Mixolydian b2b6 has a b7.
1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7

It's the go-to scale on a V7b9 chord in minor keys.

But it doesn't contain the #9.

On both dom7b9 and dom7#9 chords I use an 8-note version of that scale
that simply adds the #9 into the mix.
1 b2 b3 3 4 5 b6 b7
I use to call it "mixolydian b2b6(add#2)" but never told anyone so they
wouldn't laugh at me.

At Berklee, iirc, they called this "the b9 scale" because it's the scale
most closely associated with a dom7b9 chord, especially as V7 in minor keys.

It can be seen as a mode, or rotation, of one of the so-called "bebop
scales".
E.g. The G7b9 scale is:
G Ab Bb B C D Eb F
It uses the same notes as the Eb maj bebop scale (also used on Cm7):
Eb F G Ab Bb B C D

8-note scales tend to be a bit more unwieldy/awkward than 7-note scales.
To reduce it back to 7-notes, try leaving out the 4th.
1 b2 b3 3 5 b6 b7
This way you'll have a 7-note scale with no avoid-notes.
G Ab Bb B D Eb F can be seen as the 3rd mode of Eb harmonic major:
Eb F G Ab Bb B D

Sometimes keeping the 4th and leaving out the maj 3rd is cool too, which
amounts to the phrygian scale from the root of the dom7b9 chords.
But you'll still have to deal with the 4th as an avoid-note.

And of course our original mix b2b6 scale was 7-notes as well.

Hope that helps.

[Note: You could also think of the altered dominant scale (a 7-note
scale) as being "the b9 scale" with b5/#4 replacing both the P4th and
the P5th.
E.g. G altered dominant is:
G Ab Bb B Db/C# Eb F]
jimmybruno
2017-12-09 05:35:57 UTC
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Post by m***@gmail.com
Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and chord create tension)
It sounds awkward but I think that's the point too
You got it all wrong. Jazz is not a particular scale over a particular chord. How do you know what the comping person is going to play. You are lost in academia. That type thinking only exists in a book
TD
2017-12-09 09:51:16 UTC
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Post by jimmybruno
Post by m***@gmail.com
Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and chord create tension)
It sounds awkward but I think that's the point too
You got it all wrong. Jazz is not a particular scale over a particular chord. How do you know what the comping person is going to play. You are lost in academia. That type thinking only exists in a book
You mean like in horseshoes? Scales are for reference, like a size chart is to clothing. We are on our own if a red shirt is worn with green pants, a yellow necktie and purple socks to a wedding. Wait a second!?! That might be in...!
o***@hotmail.com
2017-12-11 02:13:46 UTC
Permalink
I dunno, to me it just sounds like a C triad moving up and down a 1/2 step :-).
The flat 7th is just a bonus!
Bg.
Gerry
2017-12-11 06:27:09 UTC
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Post by o***@hotmail.com
I dunno, to me it just sounds like a C triad moving up and down a 1/2 step :-).
The flat 7th is just a bonus!
It's a natural 7.
o***@hotmail.com
2017-12-11 22:40:00 UTC
Permalink
On 2017-12-11 02:13:46 +0000, >
Post by o***@hotmail.com
I dunno, to me it just sounds like a C triad moving up and down a 1/2 step :-).
The flat 7th is just a bonus!
It's a natural 7.
Oy,
Thanks, Duh!
Bg
Gerry
2017-12-12 01:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by o***@hotmail.com
On 2017-12-11 02:13:46 +0000, >
Post by o***@hotmail.com
I dunno, to me it just sounds like a C triad moving up and down a 1/2 step :-).
The flat 7th is just a bonus!
It's a natural 7.
Oy,
Thanks, Duh!
I use to find this kind of stuff interesting and intellectually
challenging. Now I just flat a 2nd or sharp a 5 when I please. It
seems to work almost as good as applying an entire scale and then only
using the flat 2nd before the harmony changes again.
o***@hotmail.com
2017-12-12 03:39:55 UTC
Permalink
On 2017-12-11 02:13:46 +0000, > > I dunno, to me it just sounds like a C triad moving up and down a 1/2 step :-).
Post by o***@hotmail.com
The flat 7th is just a bonus!
It's a natural 7.
Sheesh, with the Natural 7th that scale reminds me of a tune from way back called Miserloo, seems based on that scale.
Bg
Lord Valve
2017-12-11 02:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by jimmybruno
Post by m***@gmail.com
Ive been taught it is called Mixolidian b9 b13
I'm not sertain on what it is used with, but my teacher taught me that scale to improvise on top of b7#9 chords (bc both scale and chord create tension)
It sounds awkward but I think that's the point too
You got it all wrong. Jazz is not a particular scale over a particular chord.
Aye!

How do you know what the comping person is going to play.

Speaking as a comping person, I can assure you
that you don't. You gotta listen! That's the FUN
part!

You are lost in academia. That type thinking only exists in a book

Too many wankers, not enough players anymore.
Academia and the Real Book killed Jazz.

Lord Valve, ThD
Organist
s***@gmail.com
2019-12-16 15:00:00 UTC
Permalink
this scale 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 comes up when I was trying to assign scales
to chords following Joey Goldstein's method (based in changing the less
quantity of pitches from one chord to the next).
I was looking in the books to give it a name but I couldn't find it.
Somebody knows it? Somebody uses it?
By the way, in the context over a passing maj7 chord it's sounds good to me.
Manuel
Thats double harmonic major
Defiant
2019-12-18 08:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
this scale 1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, 7 comes up when I was trying to assign scales
to chords following Joey Goldstein's method (based in changing the less
quantity of pitches from one chord to the next).
I was looking in the books to give it a name but I couldn't find it.
Somebody knows it? Somebody uses it?
By the way, in the context over a passing maj7 chord it's sounds good to me.
Manuel
Thats double harmonic major
I'm sure Manuel Martinez has been checking RMMGJ every day
for the last SEVENTEEN YEARS waiting for your brilliant
response! Well done!

<fart>

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