Discussion:
Finger naming standard - p i m a c ?
(too old to reply)
Richard Whitehouse
2007-07-07 18:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Hello, I'm a jazz piano player who is trying to learn jazz guitar.
I've been playing piano for about 50 years. I've taken one lesson so
far, I'll be taking more. So, that gives you an idea of my level -
I've got lots of musical knowledge, but I'm a total guitar newbie.

My quesion is about a used book I picked up called Fingerstyle Jazz
and Popular Guitar by Howard Morgen, Faculty, Manhattan School of
Music. It was published in 1982. In the book, he refers to right-hand
fingers with the letters p, i, m, a, and c. Unfortunately (and
annoyingly in my opinion), he never gives a clear definition of what
the letters mean, or why. Maybe that info is on the accompanying
cassette tape, which I don't have. By scanning through the book, and
using common sense, I've come to the conclusion that, in his naming
scheme:

p = thumb
i = index (1st finger)
m = middle (2nd finger)
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)

So, my questions are:
- Am I interpreting him correctly?
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?

It seems to me important to clearly understand his finger-naming
scheme in order to get the most out of the book, since he uses those
letter-names all over the place in various examples.

Is this some naming scheme they use at the Manhattan School? Is there
a naming scheme that is more widely accepted as a standard, or is this
the accepted standard?

Thanks in advance for any help
Richard
Max Leggett
2007-07-07 18:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Whitehouse
Hello, I'm a jazz piano player who is trying to learn jazz guitar.
I've been playing piano for about 50 years. I've taken one lesson so
far, I'll be taking more. So, that gives you an idea of my level -
I've got lots of musical knowledge, but I'm a total guitar newbie.
My quesion is about a used book I picked up called Fingerstyle Jazz
and Popular Guitar by Howard Morgen, Faculty, Manhattan School of
Music. It was published in 1982. In the book, he refers to right-hand
fingers with the letters p, i, m, a, and c. Unfortunately (and
annoyingly in my opinion), he never gives a clear definition of what
the letters mean, or why. Maybe that info is on the accompanying
cassette tape, which I don't have. By scanning through the book, and
using common sense, I've come to the conclusion that, in his naming
p = thumb
pollex
Post by Richard Whitehouse
i = index (1st finger)
index
Post by Richard Whitehouse
m = middle (2nd finger)
median
Post by Richard Whitehouse
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
annularis
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
I forget, but pinky it is
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
Yes.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
Latin.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
Is this some naming scheme they use at the Manhattan School? Is there
a naming scheme that is more widely accepted as a standard, or is this
the accepted standard?
This is standard.
Lumpy
2007-07-07 19:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Leggett
Post by Richard Whitehouse
p = thumb
pollex
Post by Richard Whitehouse
i = index (1st finger)
index
Post by Richard Whitehouse
m = middle (2nd finger)
median
Post by Richard Whitehouse
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
annularis
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
I forget, but pinky it is
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
Yes.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
Latin.
I've never heard of them named in Latin.
More likely Espanol.
Pulgar
Indice
Medio (Medular)
Anillo (Annular)
Chico or Chiquita


Lumpy

How come you didn't star on Star Trek?
Because Clint Howard beat me for the part of Balok.

www.lumpyvoice.org
David Raleigh Arnold
2007-07-10 18:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lumpy
Post by Max Leggett
Post by Richard Whitehouse
p = thumb
pollex
Post by Richard Whitehouse
i = index (1st finger)
index
Post by Richard Whitehouse
m = middle (2nd finger)
median
Post by Richard Whitehouse
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
annularis
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
I forget, but pinky it is
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
Yes.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
Latin.
I've never heard of them named in Latin.
More likely Espanol.
Pulgar
Indice
Medio (Medular)
Anillo (Annular)
Chico or Chiquita
The c is actually for cuatro. I think c for the pinky is a very
bad idea. q for quattro or men~ique or pequen~o is much better
because it's easier to see.

Of course I use t for thumb or taume also, because it also corresponds
to the + or x which has been also used for the thumb, and p is for
"piano". p is too likely to be misinterpreted in handwritten MSS.
IMO p for thumb is now and has always been a very bad idea.
daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Original easy guitar
solos, duets, exercises. http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
David Raleigh Arnold
2007-07-10 18:37:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lumpy
Post by Max Leggett
Post by Richard Whitehouse
p = thumb
pollex
Post by Richard Whitehouse
i = index (1st finger)
index
Post by Richard Whitehouse
m = middle (2nd finger)
median
Post by Richard Whitehouse
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
annularis
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
I forget, but pinky it is
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
Yes.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
Latin.
I've never heard of them named in Latin.
More likely Espanol.
Pulgar
Indice
Medio (Medular)
Anillo (Annular)
Chico or Chiquita
The c is actually for cuatro. I think c for the pinky is a very
bad idea. q for quattro or men~ique or pequen~o is much better
because it's easier to see.

Of course I use t for thumb or taume also, because it also corresponds
to the + or x which has been also used for the thumb, and p is for
"piano". p is too likely to be misinterpreted in handwritten MSS.
IMO p for thumb is now and has always been a very bad idea.
daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Original easy guitar
solos, duets, exercises. http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
David Raleigh Arnold
2007-07-10 18:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lumpy
Post by Max Leggett
Post by Richard Whitehouse
p = thumb
pollex
Post by Richard Whitehouse
i = index (1st finger)
index
Post by Richard Whitehouse
m = middle (2nd finger)
median
Post by Richard Whitehouse
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
annularis
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
I forget, but pinky it is
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
Yes.
Post by Richard Whitehouse
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
Latin.
I've never heard of them named in Latin.
More likely Espanol.
Pulgar
Indice
Medio (Medular)
Anillo (Annular)
Chico or Chiquita
The c is actually for cuatro. I think c for the pinky is a very
bad idea. q for quattro or men~ique or pequen~o is much better
because it's easier to see.

Of course I use t for thumb or taume also, because it also corresponds
to the + or x which has been also used for the thumb, and p is for
"piano". p is too likely to be misinterpreted in handwritten MSS.
IMO p for thumb is now and has always been a very bad idea.
daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Original easy guitar
solos, duets, exercises. http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
o***@hotmail.com
2007-07-07 19:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Be's there not already a buncha good guitarists in Taranta, or is
Piano too easy :-)
Bg
Claus Rogge
2007-07-07 20:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Whitehouse
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
On the rare occasions where I´ve seen right hand pinky mentioned, it has
been "e"

Pujols Transcription of Albeniz´ Cordoba for two guitars (Ricordi 9582)
and Granados´ Intermedio de la opera Goyescas (Ricordi 9583)
--
http://cdbaby.com/cd/rogge
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/
viewAlbum?playListId=193467678
KenK
2007-07-08 22:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Richard-

The rh pinkie is also notated as "e" or "x'.
The reason for the variance is simply because it's use is not standard
practice.
But since you've been a pianist for 50 years you have an advantage
towards the use of 5 finger technique.

If you have any interest in classical technique, it would help your
development to spend some time w/ some rh fundamental technique
studies.

My personal favs are:
Charles Postalwate RH Studies for 5 fingers (a very systematic but
effective method)
Eduardo Fernandez Kitharologus (A book of non-musical mechanical
calisthenic type exercises, Not for everyone but great if you have the
discipline.)

The famed Giuliani 120 (This is a list of 120 arpeggios based on a
simple C to G7. It's all about the RH, but doesn't include "e")
The "Complete" Sor Etudes-- A must for all cgists, Very 19th century,
but a great way to hone in on many needed guitaristic devices.

I mention these because you seem to be leaning towards so-called
fingerstyle technique.
While none of them have anything to do w/ jazz, there are great for
quickly building a solid rh technique.

Good Luck to you.

KenK
Post by Richard Whitehouse
Hello, I'm a jazz piano player who is trying to learn jazz guitar.
I've been playing piano for about 50 years. I've taken one lesson so
far, I'll be taking more. So, that gives you an idea of my level -
I've got lots of musical knowledge, but I'm a total guitar newbie.
My quesion is about a used book I picked up called Fingerstyle Jazz
and Popular Guitar by Howard Morgen, Faculty, Manhattan School of
Music. It was published in 1982. In the book, he refers to right-hand
fingers with the letters p, i, m, a, and c. Unfortunately (and
annoyingly in my opinion), he never gives a clear definition of what
the letters mean, or why. Maybe that info is on the accompanying
cassette tape, which I don't have. By scanning through the book, and
using common sense, I've come to the conclusion that, in his naming
p = thumb
i = index (1st finger)
m = middle (2nd finger)
a = 3rd finger (I don't know what to call it)
c = pinky ("cuarto"??)
- Am I interpreting him correctly?
- Is this a standard way of naming the r.h. fingers?
- Why 'p' for thumb? why not 't'?
- Why 'a' for third finger?
- Is 'c' standard name for pinky?
It seems to me important to clearly understand his finger-naming
scheme in order to get the most out of the book, since he uses those
letter-names all over the place in various examples.
Is this some naming scheme they use at the Manhattan School? Is there
a naming scheme that is more widely accepted as a standard, or is this
the accepted standard?
Thanks in advance for any help
Richard
David Raleigh Arnold
2007-07-10 18:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by KenK
Hi Richard-
The rh pinkie is also notated as "e" or "x'.
The reason for the variance is simply because it's use is not standard
practice.
But since you've been a pianist for 50 years you have an advantage
towards the use of 5 finger technique.
If you have any interest in classical technique, it would help your
development to spend some time w/ some rh fundamental technique
studies.
Mine is best. daveA
--
Free download of technical exercises worth a lifetime of practice:
http://www.openguitar.com/dynamic.html :::: You can play the cards
you're dealt, or improve your hand with DGT. Original easy guitar
solos, duets, exercises. http://www.openguitar.com/contact.html
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